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Meg on SMSFs: why my kids don’t belong to my SMSF… yet

In a monthly column to assist trustees, specialist Meg Heffron explores major issues on managing your SMSF.

In the last few years, I’ve found myself pondering whether or not my children should come into my SMSF. They could – both my sons are adults, are engaged with their super and more than capable of learning how to share the management of an SMSF. We’re also a small enough family that we can all fit in together under the ‘maximum of 6 members’ rule.

In some ways it would be nice to bring them in to my existing fund. They’ve both had that slightly shocking experience that many 20-somethings have where their small contribution amounts are decimated by fees, even though they both belong to well-regarded industry funds.

And when I explained Government Co-contributions and the First Home Super Saver Scheme they actually added some of their own money. (Well, OK, let’s be honest, I gave them some money to put in and they did.) But even a lot of that disappeared in fees. There’s no doubt that it would be cheaper for them to belong to my fund than stay where they are.

What I'm not concerned about

I’m not worried about them having too much knowledge of my financial affairs. We’re a ridiculously transparent family when it comes to money and always have been (less so about budding romances and speeding tickets as I discovered on a recent holiday but … that’s probably not critical in this question of whether or not they join my SMSF).

Initially I wondered if deep down I was put off because they would be able to outvote me even though most of the fund would be my balance. Of course, there are ways to control that if they agree to it.

For example, I could continue to own the shares in the trustee company. That’s because there are rules saying that (roughly) “generally speaking, all members have to be directors of the trustee company” but there are no rules at all about who owns the shares in the company itself. Given that most company constitutions give ultimate power to hire and fire directors to the shareholders, hanging on to the shares does mean I keep a lot of control.

In fact, in our case, I could even continue to be the sole director of the trustee company because we all hold enduring powers of attorney for each other. Specifically, the fact that I have an enduring power of attorney for each of them means that I could be the sole director even if they were both members.

But to be honest I don’t like that approach. There will be some useful learnings for them if they’re participants rather than observers. It also feels a bit patronising – they’re adults, they should have a direct say in how their SMSF is managed.

So that wasn’t it.

A three-person fund would be slightly harder for my financial adviser I imagine as he would need to consider the fund’s investments in terms of their appropriateness for people with very different timeframes. As I keep reminding both my adviser and my children, I am way too young for retirement but even I would have to admit that I’m closer than my children are.

I don’t think my adviser or my Heffron team (who do the accounting work for the fund) would be too concerned about the administrative hassle of having more trustees who don’t live together to sign things like investment strategies, annual returns etc. – digital signing makes that incredibly easy these days.

That wasn’t it either.

Circumstances can change too

I doubt the arrangement would last forever. I hope my boys are lucky enough to have whatever families they want themselves in the future. That will probably mean they move to their own SMSF one day. But the fact that something won’t last forever doesn’t mean it won’t add value for the next 10-15 years. It’s just something we should consider up front. For example, it might not make sense to invest in anything that tied up their balances too much – we’d need to be sure they could get out when they wanted to. (This is the sort of thing ASIC and the ATO mean when they talk about the importance of having an exit strategy. What sorts of things might cause some of the members to leave or even trigger the fund being wound up? Can we plan for them in any meaningful way?)

Often people join forces with their children in an SMSF to genuinely invest together in an asset neither party could afford to buy solo. That’s not a consideration in my case – my investments are very boring and even if my sons were to join the fund, I can’t see that changing any time soon. Others value the great cash flow management afforded by having multiple generations in the same fund. The cash flow coming in via contributions from the kids’ generation funds pension payments to the older generation, leaving the investments to keep growing undisturbed. That’s probably a little too far in the future for me to be worrying about yet.

Of course, all of this assumes we continue to be just as aligned as we are right now. I hate to even imagine it but there’s always the possibility that we have a major falling out. A new spouse (for any or all of us) could change the dynamics enormously – pretty much everyone who advises clients on their finances has a war story along these lines.

So, I’d need to check my trust deed to make sure it deals with disputes appropriately. And much as I would love to say that we can put watertight provisions in place to solve every problem, the fact is it’s never possible. Even the controls I touched on earlier (hanging on to the shares in the corporate trustee or even being the sole director) only go so far. I won’t be able to unilaterally expel one or both of them from ‘my’ SMSF at some point just because they start sizing me up for a nursing home earlier than I want. As members, they would need to initiate any rollover, I can’t just choose a new fund for them. So even ending everything will require good faith dealings on all sides.

My decision

As I thought about it more for the purposes of writing this article, I concluded that the main driver for including my children in my SMSF would be to save them fees and give them the kind of freedom and control I enjoy with my SMSF at a bargain price. It would set them up to be confident in having their own one day. And I think the thing that’s stopping me is that it would just be less convenient for me. At the moment, decision making is easy – my adviser emails me, I respond, and things happen. I can’t be bothered nagging my young adults who are both busy with their own lives to sign things. Perhaps I’m not the wonderful mother I thought I was after all.

 

Meg Heffron is the Managing Director of Heffron SMSF Solutions, a sponsor of Firstlinks. This is general information only and it does not constitute any recommendation or advice. It does not consider any personal circumstances and is based on an understanding of relevant rules and legislation at the time of writing.

For more articles and papers from Heffron, please click here.

 

13 Comments
tom taylor
March 28, 2024

We had both our sons in our SMSF. It was good in teaching them about trusts and responsibilities but it came at a cost. We had property that they were not party to but when we went into a transition to retirement everything was lumped together. As I operated my own smsf I did not appreciate that they then had an interset in our properties as they then paid some of the liabilities which until we closed the fund we were not aware of of requirred us to compensate them.
My advice is do not include your kids in your SMSF

Denial
July 28, 2023

I find the issue with high fees eroding the outcomes from ISA being an interesting comment. Whilst not as low as you can get via large SMSF investing directly/ETFs it seems like the trade-off is well worth it given their track record (via exposure to world class assets and alternative asset classes)

Jill
July 24, 2023

Thanks for a great article Meg. I've gone through these deliberations umpteen times but with one son being non-resident, it wasn't a feasible proposition. I'm hoping (and have documents to the effect) to wind up my SMSF prior to my demise!

Paul
July 25, 2023

Bad idea. You'll want high income investments near/at retirement. Children will want low income high growth. So incompatible.

MK Adelaide
July 23, 2023

I am not sure that Meg’s solution on control works. All members have to be trustees as I understand it for an SMSF.
I also understand that decisions have to be unanimous. Perhaps that is wrong too.

However she knows the rules better than I.

With those (possibly erroneous) restrictions in mind, what I did in my fund was to have a clause in the deed which was expressed to provide for voting on one issue based on member balances. That issue was whether a member should be required to depart the fund. The clause specified a large public fund as the direction of the transfer in the absence of the member making a specific request for some other fund. It also provided for the balance at the start of the year to be transferred early and the earnings to that point to be transferred much later, once the accounts were struck at year end - based on a formula using days in the fund that year. Each remaining member was empowered to sign forms on behalf of the departing member, should they get the sulks.

One problem Meg does not mention is the appalling approach of the ATO to a fund where one member seeks income to cover the minimum pension payment but the others prefer growth stocks which have little or no dividend.

I tried desperately to have the income from dividends divided accordingly and the income from share gains (realised or unrealised) reflect these different goals. To no avail.

The new Auditors (the recent change to ones not from my accountant’s firm were from a large but second tier firm) were terrified of the ATO and would not sign off accounts struck on that basis as fair as between the members!

I have a number of good friends in the big 4 and went to them to see if that view. I got exactly the same response based on the ATO’s attitude and rulings which seemed to me to be on different topics (mainly a visceral hatred of using super to endow children). It was in vain that I pointed to a long history of different goals and results from the investments to meet them. That the accounts had passed ATO scrutiny under the former Auditor was irrelevant apparently.

“Split the investments” so in essence each member’s fund’s assets were separately identified was the only solution available.

At that point I gave up and the children are now in a different SMSF.

Bureaucracy!!!!

Lyn
July 25, 2023

MK Adelaide, it would be interesting to know Meg's comment re the issues you raised and she spoke of generational difference in article. Eg. to Meg, if Investment Plan which is required anyway, states objectives such as those you raised and minuted for acceptance if acceptance reached? ( assumed would not have been accepted in your description) Am big fan of Inv Plans and update every twist and turn as arise even minor immaterial change so documented instead of relying on memory for what would have been a logical move to me at some time long in the past!





Rob
July 21, 2023

There is another solution to at least dilute the fees your kids and potentially, Grandkids are paying and that is to help them make a non concessional contribution to their accounts. By my reckoning, when an account balance gets to about $20,000 the fee impost becomes reasonable.

A child of any age with a TFN is able to open a Super account with some of the larger Industry Funds. 50 years of compounding will be a decent number that probably cannot be touched and that has some appeal!

TinTin
July 21, 2023

Plus the govt co-contributions where appropriate also kick the tin along.too

Frank
July 21, 2023

I have enjoyed your newsletter for quite a few years. While I’ve never had an SMSF, I always enjoy Meg Heffron’s columns a lot too. Today’s made me think of a question she or someone else might like to include in a future column: as I understand it, the best time to withdraw my remaining super balance is the day before I die, to avoid a tax debt for my children – possibly not easy to arrange??. Does the inclusion of children (in her SMSF) Meg is considering in today’s column take care of this issue, or is such a tax still payable upon the (typically) elder member’s death?

Regards,
Frank

Graham W
July 24, 2023

It is my understanding that a superannuation benefit cannot stay in a fund when a person dies. So the money cannot stay in the SMSF and be taken over by the children. Taking most of the dying parent's fund balance out of the fund will be tax free. If the parent has the majority of the funds that make the SMSF viable , perhaps some of the money withdrawn could be gifted to the children and recontributed to make the fund financially viable. That could be as concessional or non-concessional depending on their individual circumstances. In my case my children will not become part of my fund and would not be able to run it after my wife and I pass on.

Peter Coghlan
July 21, 2023

Interesting article thankyou. One other consideration is the possibility that one or more children may decide to reside overseas and, as far as I can make out, that would make them ineligible to be Trustees and Members of an Australian SMSF. Is my understanding correct?

Danielle Stitt
July 20, 2023

Erosive fees would make anyone weep and can have such a large impact on the final balance. This is a wonderful article, balancing the pros and cons that so many of us face with adult children and has sparked further thought here. Thanks for your candour and wisdom as always Meg.

Aussie HIFIRE
July 20, 2023

The visible cost issue for most people including your children is not the fees that they are paying within their super funds, it is the insurance which is not a fee. And given that the vast majority of people don't want to get any other insurance in place, as much as we might not like having the insurance in super, it's probably for the best that it is there.

The invisible cost issue of the high MERs and other poorly disclosed costs of industry super funds is another matter of course.

 

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